Before we get into the question being posed in this post – please feel free to take a moment and complete the ObSec 40k 8th ed survey – its a chance to have your say in the future ObSec events (and maybe see us submit the results to other organising bodies)!
Hi everyone, we have a curly question for you! As you know we ran our first 8th Ed game last weekend. It was only a month after the game was released, for some people this was their first games in the new edition, for others they had got a few games under their belt but in all reasonableness the game is new to everyone in the room.
We have just had one of the players contact us to let us know that they made a mistake with how they were playing their list. This has given the player an unfair advantage and could potentially have significantly affected the outcome of the games played. It also would impact the overall standing of results should this player be disqualified. Firstly I want to publicly thank the player for getting in touch and letting us know, that shows great strength of character and integrity.
As I have mentioned repeatedly that we are all about transparency and so I am putting the question to you. What do you think? This has obviously been an honest mistake on the players part or they wouldn’t have brought it to our attention. The player had a responsibility to make sure that they knew how to play their list in the new edition but at the same time the opponents had a responsibility to check on the play to make sure the moves were legal. None of the opponents noticed. Given we were only 1 month out from the edition being released it is understandable that no one noticed because they were all to busy remembering what their own army does to think too hard on what the opponents army does.
So I guess the question is, does inadvertently playing an army incorrectly based on a lack of cohesive knowledge around the new rules for the army still count as cheating? Should the player ranks for the event still stand or should the player be disqualified?
M and I have been talking on this for the better part of an hour trying to decide where we feel we should go with this. On the one hand everyone was still learning and it was a genuine mistake, on the other hand all players have a responsibility to know how to play their army, on the third hand…the debate goes on. I feel like Kali, the Indian Goddess with many arms, there has been so much ‘on the other hand’ going on!
While I would like feedback on this via our Facebook page where this post is listed, I will very strongly request that any and all feedback be polite, courteous and respectful towards the player in question. Again I would like to reiterate my admiration for the player to bring this to our attention. They could have kept quiet about it and none of us would be any the wiser so any negative or derogatory comments will be deleted – so…
What do you think?
Depends if their army list was clearly written to curb stop opponents, if say a 3 storm raven list with draigo was played incorrectly then yes, disqualify them. If it was a friendly list with a minor mistake (points or weapons) then let it slide.
Having run the GG Lord of War series for years in the dim dark past, if it was t picked up on the day it has to be the result as determined on the day (because do you really want to rerun the whole thing??)
Take it as a point on the learning curve, there are still the codices to tuck in to yet. C:SM is going to present an amazing advantage over the remaining Indices until the rest come out. It reminds me of my first tournament I ran back in1995 at SAS. The Chaos codex came out and there were armies already submitted using the Black Codex (army lists not covered by codices, which came from the 40k box set).
Heck, I’m still coming to terms with how modifiers are applied before rerolls :p As you said, it wasn’t a malicious application of the rules. Pay it and play on (and let everyone know what it was so it can be picked up by others and corrected, I bet he’s not the only one playing it wrong).
I think if ever there is conclusive evidence that a player has not used the correct rules surrounding their faction (either by themselves or 3rd party) it must be corrected. The temptation to allow a persons interpretation of a rule ‘on the day’ to go on to win a higher placing because it won’t be corrected if found out is too great for some competitive people. I speak as someone who gets beaten a lot.
Sadly this player has done the right thing, I would consider they be given an ‘honourable discharge from service’ rather than disqualification. I would like to think I would be up front like this player and accept the consequences if in the same position.
I think you have done the right thing in taking this step of action at least, whatever the outcome, it is your business and when people pay you for the right to provide an event it is reassuring to see you are giving consideration to ALL players.
Well Done and good luck
I can’t speak to 40k knowledge, but I can approach from a competitive gaming angle.
Provided the mistake was a genuine mistake, and nobody picked up on it in game, generally something like this is live, learn and let be. The player will not make the fault again. We’ve all misinterpreted rules, and not for the purpose of exploitation, just pure misunderstanding.
I would say let it lie, chalk it down as a learning experience and move forward.